Chief Baller and Co-Founder of SixthDivision
Creating An Automatic Customer Journey
& Structuring Your Content To Generate Sales
About This Episode
In this episode of The Content Coalition, we interview Brad Martineau, Chief Baller and Co-Founder of SixthDivision.
His journey in marketing automation for small business began as the 6th employee at the software company that created the category of marketing automation for small business, Infusionsoft. After leading customer success and product development, Brad left Infusionsoft to start SixthDivision and PlusThis.
SixthDivision is recognized as one of the top marketing automation agencies in the world that has served thousands of businesses helping them better design, architect, and implement marketing automation tools to grow revenue, save time, and ultimately use automation to build a business they actually want.
Tune in as Brad shares his key framework-system strategy that consistently generates 7 figures every year for SixthDivision. He also shares how to leverage your content in the client’s journey in order to generate more sales for your business.
What You’ll Learn
- [03:13] The difference between “automatic” and “automated” when building your customer journey
- [05:53] What it means to have a framework and system for everything, and how to implement this
- [07:05] Brad’s secret on how he makes 7 figures consistently year over year
- [10:00] Behind the scenes of a client’s journey, and how to optimize these results
- [12:51] The step-by-step framework for your content
- [24:40] How to better prepare your clients for a sales conversation
- [27:15] Is there really a “sweet spot” on touch points from booking a sales call to actually getting it?
- [35:30] How to “intrigue-optimize” your content to increase excitement over your product
- [37:15] 1 actionable thing to implement within the next 24 hours
Shaina Weisinger is the Founder and CEO of Repurpose House, which turns long-form content into optimized videos and images for high engagement social media strategies. Shaina has a background is video production for digital marketing and is on a mission to show content creators the untapped potential and repurposing power of the content that they already have. She has taught about content in many publications including DigitalMarketer, Inc., and Startup Nation, and continuously offers valuable takeaways by interviewing industry experts from world recognized brands such as Godaddy, HubSpot, MarketingProfs, and more through her video podcast, The Content Coalition. She loves to laugh loudly, be obnoxiously competitive on the volleyball court, treat her dogs as her kin, and recover from tripping on or running into almost everything within a five-foot radius. Learn more about Shaina here: ShainaWeisinger.com
Shaina: Hey guys, Shaina here. I just wanted to tell you, I’m so psyched about this episode of the content coalition with Brad Martineau was SixDivision. I mean I entered it out so hard that it’s a super long episode because Sarah had to cut me off because I was learning so much. Um, there are, well, I mean first of all, all the whole episode is stellar. Please watch or listen to the whole thing. There are three points that really stood out to me that I just wanted to let you know about advanced. So I bought, not at 10 minutes is gonna be about 10 minutes after the length of this video, but about 10 minutes he talks about like the framework of what we’re going to talk about. Um, it’s how his brain works and he breaks down like the framework of what content looks like in every stage of the client journey.
Shaina: Add about 20 minutes. He starts talking about um, courses. So he talks about the difference between the experience you will have in courses and the actual content and there’s a big difference and they both are very, very important. And then at about 30 minutes. So we’re at 10, 10, 10. You probably did that on purpose. I’m at about 30 minutes. He starts talking about taking your existing contacts and reengaging with them and that they are a huge source of gold for you as a business. Um, and best practices on how to reengage, how to get more sales out of your existing contacts. It was, I mean, it was such a great episode and everything seems so obvious after he said it. And I love that. Um, highly an implementable, implementable, and a, you’re going to love it. So enjoy. And I’m excited that you guys are gonna learn so much.
Shaina: Cause I mean I, my head was like, I’m Shaina, I love dogs. I trip a lot and I happen to have a knack for making pretty sleep videos for businesses. But the more videos we made, the more questions I got about how video and other content can be leveraged to make a bigger impact in their marketing. I mean, 44% of marketers say that producing content is their biggest challenge. Get content marketing is 62% less expensive than outbound and produces three times more leads. Now I know a lot, but I certainly don’t know it all. So I made it my mission to talk with content, kings, queens and bosses to learn as much as I could about crushing content marketing. And I’m taking you along with me. Welcome to the content coalition. Awesome. We are in Gilbert, Arizona with bread mountain o six division. They are one of Infusionsoft’s top automation agencies. Tell me a little bit about what you guys do kind of high level cause I really want to dive into the whole, like we kind of created this game plan. I’m really excited to dive into it prior to the camera’s rolling. So
Brad: Yeah. So uh, so we work with entrepreneurs and small businesses and what we found is most entrepreneurs love the idea of having a predictable, systematic, automatic and then therefore ultimately scalable business, something they can count on and they know how it’s going to run a house going to work. Uh, the answer to how you go do that is through automation. And so ultimately we do is we help people build automatic client journey. So every step that happens after you capture lead all the way through until they’ve paid you money, they want to continue to pay your money, they’re shouting your name from the rooftops. Uh, we have people come in and design what does it, what will it take and what’s the best client journey, the best experience that we can deliver. And then we go grab all the tools that you need to put it together and just say, all right, we’ll go build it for you. It’s Kinda like we have this lego set in the background. It’s like, what do you want to build? And then we go build it for you right on. So that your life is systematic and it’s organized. You know, what’s happening. You, you have visibility into what’s going on, all that sort of stuff.
Shaina: And that’s the goal. Like to get automated is like the goal for everybody. But to get there is like, to me, my brain melts a little bit just thinking of all the pieces you have to put together in the Lego blocks.
Brad: Yeah. Well, yeah, it works. There’s one, there’s one new ones. I think it’s important that to catch up cause the goal is actually not to be automated and the goal is to be automatic.
Brad: Um, and there’s a difference and it’s a little subtle. It’s a subtle nuance, but it makes all the difference in the world if you think about it, automated only applies to things that you can like have a computer do. Right? Um, but most businesses in some capacity, I don’t know, you’d have to like interact with humans. So there’s a human element and there are steps in that client journey that will happen that a human has to do. So really what we want is want it to be automatic.
Brad: Now I want the business to run the same way every single time. I want the experience to be predictable. Uh, we’ll use automation in two ways.
Brad: One, to actually go send the emails or send the videos or whatever, whenever I can just tell the computer to send it. But then separately, I also want to use automation to make it, to basically to remind people to go do what they’re supposed to do. So that as an owner, I can be like, Hey, this is what I want to have happen. These steps. Step one computer can do step two with humans. Got To do, I need to go remind them. And if they don’t, I want it to tell me so I can tell them so that I know that it’s automatic. So automatic just mean the same thing happens every single time. Automated is how I get to that. But really what people want is they want an automatic business at the end of the day.
Shaina: Yeah. Right on. Okay. So let’s start from how, how you got into sixth division. Like you were employee number six at Infusionsoft. Yes.
Brad: Yep. So I was employee number six at infusion soft. Knowing that doesn’t know it. Infusionsoft is, it’s the, it’s the tool that started this whole thing called marketing automation for small businesses. And there are others that have come out. That’s where they come out every Monday at like 11:30.
Shaina: Sure. Right.
Brad: Um, but I was the sixth employee there. I was there for about six or seven years. We went from six employees to about 150. Um, and then I broke off and start a SixthDivision. Um, and I think right now they’re at like 900 employees or so.
Shaina: Yeah. It’s crazy. And now their Keap, right
Brad: There. Yes. What else? Keap and so keep with two products they have keep and then Infusionsoft by Keap. Uh, but yeah, same, same thing. New label. A cool story behind them. Yes. Same thing.
Shaina: Right on. So what made you branch off to do your own thing?
Brad: Uh, so um, there’s like a two part answer to that question. The first part answer is, uh, they had hit a financial a couple of months where they had, it’s like financial rough spot and proactively they laid off 10% of the company and I was in that 10%.
Shaina: Oh, okay.
Brad: Um, I don’t know that I would have ever left the company if they hadn’t said, here’s the door. So I got laid off and I turned around and like I had been for six years and since they had been like in and around, like every single thing in the APP, like in the tool, I had had my fingerprints on it. I could, I could navigate you through the APP literally without being in front of a computer. Like I knew it inside and out. I was like, well, I guess I’ll go help people with this thing because people seem to have troubles with it.
Brad: Um, and so I, the, I sort of fell into it by default because it was, it was the skill set that I had. Um, and then over time I fell in love with entrepreneurship and the idea of automation. I’ve always been a really, really intrigued at systems. I believe that was, I believe that behind anything you’re trying to do, literally anything, there is a framework and within that framework are systems. And if you know what the framework is and you can come up with a system that works, everything can be done with less time, with less energy and more efficiently. So like for me, my whole, I mean from when I was growing up on the sixth of 10 kids and uh, my mom, uh, I have since learned out of pure sanity is like every Saturday. I don’t remember a Saturday or a holiday that I slept in.
Brad: I swear we’re up at five o’clock. It might’ve been seven cause I was younger but we’re up and she’s like, you got to go work for five hours in the yard. And my brain is like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Brad: Show me what you want to get done there and I’m going to figure out the best way to get it done because how you do something for me matters as much as what you do. You can always get more result. Most people could get way better results in their businesses, in their lives with their families, uh, with way less time, energy and effort if they would pay attention to the framework and a system. So I fell in love with it, started working with clients. We’re like, man, I love entrepreneurs too. Cause they’re the ones that go change the world. And so here we are trying to help people make their businesses automatic so that they can go do things that matter in their life.
Shaina: It’s so isn’t it crazy how like probably when he got laid off you’re like, oh no, what am I gonna do in my life? Like how is this going to work? And now, I mean you for your first year they did seven figures in the first year. Yup. And then consistently thereafter. Yup. What would you think the key to that success is?
Brad: Um, I think the key is knowing the key is having a problem that people really want solves.
Brad: Um, and then being able to get into the, you know, find the right water coolers where there are people and, and uh, a lot of our immediate success was a perfect combination of there was a problem that was extremely painful and had high high benefit. The bigger the problem, the more you can, the more money you can make. Um, or the bigger the audience of people that have that problem that you can get to a then the more money than the more money you can make. So it was, it was a combination of finding a problem that people really want it solved and had the ability to pay it to get solved. And then also, um, being relentlessly committed to the experience and the value that you deliver, even if it meant for the first, I mean we did, we did seven figures in our first year and I will tell you, I would not wish our first year on any other soul.
Shaina: Right. With that going to grow with them as good madness.
Brad: Cause yeah, you grow when you’ve got clients and it’s a services business and we didn’t have like all of our systems now then to, we didn’t have an automatic client journey. I didn’t have that. So we’re kind of, we’re kind of making it up as we go and we’re building the systems as we go. And, and, and the other part of being relentlessly committed to the client’s experience means what it looks like is I’ve got clients in for, we got clients here right now. I’ve got two days we’re going to do work. But then I got the clients that were in last week that we’re here for two days, that I didn’t have a system in place to get all the stuff done that they wanted to get done in the two days. So I’m doing their work in the morning and at night.
Brad: And then I got the clients that were in the week before. So it was, and then I, and then I’ve got to go travel cause I got to keep clients coming in the door.
Brad: So, um, so it was crazy. But I would say, I would say it’s finding a problem that people have that they want to get solved and they have the economic like they want to get salt and I actually, I should change that. It’s not that they want to get solved, it’s that they are committed to solving and that they are actively spending time, energy and money trying to solve. Yeah. So having that problem, finding the water coolers are where those people are and then being ridiculously committed to like more so sleep more so than other. It began to be ridiculous to committed to the value you provide so that you can create an army of people that that love you and we’ll build your brand.
Brad: So that if I were to go try and recreate it again when I would look for is, okay, where’s a brand new opportunity that just came up that people are currently spending time, energy and money, bonus points if they’re really frustrated. Because when you’re frustrated you’ll spend more money. It means that it’s a bigger problem for them. Yeah. And then what I would do is I would do the exact same thing. I’d go in and say, okay, I’m gonna go find the clients. I’m going to find the water coolers, get in front of them and then I’m going to be ridiculous. They committed to creating a like just a wealth of holy crap. I went to them and that was awesome cause then I can take that back into the water coolers of the people that are frustrated and it’s like Manna from heaven. There’s nobody that knows what’s going on. They can tell what my problem is and they’ve got a whole bunch of evidence that they’ve done it really well. So that’s what I do
Shaina: right on. Oh, so there you go guys. Whoever starting their first business, go do it,
Brad: find the problem, find a problem, and be committed to credit. Just ridiculous outcome if find the problem, find the water coolers and then create ridiculous outcomes for people. It’s a really simple cycle.
Shaina: I have so many more questions with that, but I know we need to swing into content. Like I’m like, oh my gosh, I really want to pick your brain, but we’ll go on to the, you know, the stuff we wanted to talk about, which is content.
Shaina: Okay. So we talked about content a lot on the show, like Yep, that’s literally all it’s about. But once you create the content, like the initial, like we were talking to the organic fluffy content that goes out to the world and serves people, like what happens after that is just as important, if not more important. I would hope that you guys think then what the actual content is. And so what I really want to talk to you about and what we, we’ve kind of established is that can we talk about the client journey and what happens once they’ve, you know, check the box and given their contact info and then how that looks moving. Yeah.
Brad: Uh, yeah. And I think just real quick, I want to zoom back out. Yeah. It’s called frameworks and systems by the way. So my brain’s like, framework, where are we talking about here? So here’s the framework of how you like in, in the realm of the overall client journey, which would include your advertising efforts and all that sort of thing. Right? So when we say content content is a really interesting word. It’s sort of ubiquitous and it can apply all the way across. And so what I found is a lot of people in their lives, um, would be greatly served if they got way more discipline in their language. So we say content, but we don’t actually know what that means. But we act and operate as if we do know what it means. So I just want to, I’m going to provide a little bit of a structure for the conversation.
Brad: So when we say content, there’s a, so this is my, my dry erase board that’s not here, but you get to pretend with me. Okay. All right. So over here are all the things that I do to try and get, this is what I’m trying to find. Water coolers. And when I say water coolers, I mean just get in front of people, right? So I do all these things over here, like my Facebook ads. And then we have this traditional content marketing, which is more of like an organic play. Like I’m just going to do a bunch of videos and do a bunch of blog posts, Instagram stuff, really, really valuable content. People will tag other people, whatever. And then somehow they end up on my system, so that’s like this pure content marketing. We’ll be here in advertising. Well, we also have his content in marketing, right?
Brad: Which is like, no, I’m on Facebook, but I’m spending money to drive people like I haven’t. I have a video ad. Okay, well it’s content, but it’s in marketing. It’s not the same as content marketing. And then you’ve got like, well, I’m going to actually go and get on stage somewhere. Yeah, I’m taking content to get on stage. So, so we’ve got all these things that are designed to get people like to capture a lead. If I’m onstage, I want someone to text in or give me their business card, right? If I’m on Facebook, I want him to go fill out a form on my website. If I’m doing content marketing, maybe I’m trying to get them to follow my Instagram account or fall on my Facebook account and then ultimately get them to go fill out a form. Somehow I’ve got to capture their information.
Brad: That’s when this idea of an automatic client journey starts. Now I’ve captured them. And then I’ve got all my followup that I send. And in there I have content which could look like, what am I sending them? Like what’s the, the free report that I’m giving and what’s the content? How do I follow up? If they don’t respond right away, what do I send? Like now what do I sound? They said they wanted this thing, but they didn’t buy after that. Well, now what do I sound? I’ve got more content that I’ve got to figure out. And I know you said you have people that do courses.
Brad: Okay. We’ll courses is just more content. So there’s content spread throughout, but it’s really important to look at it. And if you had a dry erase board or a piece of paper, what I would draw it is I’m trying to find eyeballs. I drop them into the client journey and know the content flows throughout all of that.
Brad: Um, and I think, I think what’s really important when we talk about content, no matter where we are, and that entire process is recognizing the role that content plays. Contents job is to catch somebody’s attention, change their belief in their thinking, to get them to take some action and it whether it’s a blog post or it’s a video ad on Facebook or it’s a stage presentation, whether it’s the free report that you gave, whether it’s a sales conversation or, and this is the one I think people don’t think about or whether it’s a course, a lot of people are like, oh they bought there in the course. I just go throw my content around, whatever it is. That’s like the most important time. All you did was convinced them to give you money. You haven’t actually convinced them to listen to you and follow anything. Right? So how you organize the content in your course matters as well. All right, so that’s like the summary of the framework. What was your question again?
Shaina: Well, I guess like step one, like okay, you’ve got all of these pieces here. The speaking, the Facebook, the, you know, the blogs, all that stuff, right. I would, I mean, and I know that every business is different, so their content within that system is going to be much different. But what are some similarities that you find in, like what do you do first when a business walks in and they’re like, here’s what we’re doing. for outreach. What do we do next?
Brad: So first thing is no orphans content.
Brad: And what I mean by that is, um, remember we were talking about the beginning of the very first thing is find a problem,
Brad: Uh, you gotta be really, really clear. So the very first thing for me, if like any business I come into the very first question is, what problem are you solving? Are you familiar with Clayton Christianson? Is the jobs to be done framework?
Brad: Okay. So like what job are people hiring your end product to do? Right? And then all content, you have to be able to align all of your content to that. So I see a lot of people are like, yeah, I’m doing this thing over here. I’m like, like that’s a big jump to get somebody to go from that piece of content to they’re going to buy this thing over here.
Brad: So what I want to look at first with all the content as far as I decided what am I going to create is I want to, I want to start with what’s the problem that’s being solved and how to be able to like show the hierarchy of where does this piece of content fit into taking somebody from where they are now and then getting them to actually buy my product or service to solve the problem. Whichever problem it is, if they’re buying it to solve. Gotcha. So the first thing is they’ve got to have like organizational strategy around like why are you even creating this content? And a lot of times it’s gonna be broken up in stages. So if we just take like a, I think there’ll be five, well I reserve the right to have it be a different number because I’m going off of memory, but you’ve got your advertising stuff, we’re going to create content.
Brad: Then you have your, what you’re doing with leads. And leads are people that have request, like you have their contact information, but they’re not at the point where they’re like, hey, I might buy something from you and you have prospects, prospects like, hm, I might buy from you. Then you have your clients. So we got advertising, leads, prospects, clients, and then down here we have this bucket called try and get them back reengagement, right? They fell out, they didn’t convert. So those are the five spots that we would look at. And the first question is like, I always start at the very end. So I’ve got a product, have I built an architect of the product with content in a way that it’s actually going to produce the outcome that I want? So you mentioned, we were talking before about courses,
Brad: Um, in a, in a course, when I’m looking at the content of a course where I want to look at it, okay, how can I organize your content to actually produce the outcome that I want? Because the best content that I can get by the way, if somebody went through the course and then like, oh my gosh, this is the most amazing thing ever. Boom content that goes on right back to the very front,
Brad: Yeah. So I, I like to start at the very end and make sure I get that dialed because that’s going to feed me the most important content in the world, which is all of the client stories that I’m going to get and I want to make sure it’s directly tied to what problem are we trying to solve.
Shaina: You’re saying that at the very end of the, obviously like the content that you’re giving as your product needs to be able to be effective enough to generate testimonials, client stories, things like that. What else would you say that content needs to deliver?
Brad: Uh, on the, on the product side? Yeah. Um, all right. So I think the content serves a couple of purposes. There’s experience and there’s value. So some of that content is going to be the value. Like I bought a course on how to change the oil on my car because I don’t know how to do that. I mean I know how to go pay for somebody else do. So let’s say about a course I do that well. Part of the course is going to be the valuable pieces. Like I’m going to show you how to go do it. Yeah. Most of the time people can figure that out. What they miss is the experience side. Um, and the experience side has a couple of elements and part of the most important one is just because I paid you money for your course, it doesn’t mean I’m actually going to go do anything and I’m using a really poor example with changing oil in your car because most of the time these courses like I’m going to help you actually solve a major problem.
Brad: Yeah. The thing is is most people don’t actually do what’s in the course. And the reason why is because the course creator, when they went and put it together, all they focused on what’s in the content of here’s how to go do it. They didn’t consider the fact that you’ve got to re pump the people up and get them excited. You’ve got to change their mental state even after they gave you money to get them excited to start going through your course and then to continue going through your course. So what I look at when I look at courses one like just very specifically, um, you’re welcome module. My opinion is the most important module in the entire program and the job in the world. And it’s the one that gets skipped the most. And the reason why I get skipped the Munsters cause most people suck at doing welcome modules.
Brad: So the welcome module typically is, Hey, welcome and I’m going to go on this big long diatribe about myself and all these things like nobody cares, right? You’re under the care about who they care about. The very first thing they care about is how do I get the most out of this? That ought to be the very first video. And like every single course that I do that it goes like this. Real excited to have you here. My name’s Brad. I’m excited to be your host. As we go through this course, I want to start by answering the question I could ask the most, which is how do I get the most out of this thing? Now that’s actually just code for a video that says, I am now going to give you five or six principles that if you adopt it, we’ll have you get out of your own way.
Brad: So I’m going to go attack your mindset and I’m going to call that look. If you do this, you’ll have success. If you do this, you’ll just says, I’m preparing them for what they’re about to get into so that when those hurdles come up, I’ve already talked about it and I’m getting them ready. And then the second thing I do is I give them like an overview. So just like I did with this, like let me give you a framework of what we’re talking about here. I’ll start and say, so let me tell you how this whole thing works and why it matters. I’m reselling them on why it matters. Right after I just got like I literally went in and directly attack to their mind the attack, their mindset so that they don’t, um, I mean every human being has like a baller side and a slacker side.
Brad: We all do and I want to establish your slacker side is not welcome here. You’re baller side is. So that’s the, the, that’s the very first video. And then in every module I’m constantly reminding them, I’m referring back to those five or six core principles of how to get the most, which again is just code for, I know what you might do as a slacker human that will undermine your own success. So I refer back to those in every single, all the pieces of content. And then the second thing I do is I never deliver a piece of content without it being in a context sandwich, which just means there’s an organization to all of the information you’re sharing. So I start every module at the Cape. Now remember in this module we’re talking about this and here’s where it fits in the overall puzzle so that they always, it’s like a mall map.
Brad: You are here. Here’s the whole mall. Well then don’t forget, I told you, if you don’t actually do this, you won’t get any results. And when it starts to get hard and if you quit, when it gets hard, you’re not going to get anywhere. Like I’m just pointing back to the principles that I’m helping people remember that we’ll have them be successful. That’s amazing. It’s, it’s more than just hold your hand and walk you Thalia. It’s way more than that. No, that’s the, that’s actually in my, I mean let’s look at it this way. If you have the opportunity to buy from two people and one of them, you know that they’re really, really good at what they do. Um, but you know that the experience is going to be subpar, crappy. And you have somebody else who is decent at what they do with their experience is phenomenal.
Brad: Like who’s going to win? And actually better said is if you experienced both of those, which one are you going to be more excited about afterwards? The one that had a better experience. Now, I’m not suggesting that you decrease the value and increase the experience. I’m suggesting you do both. So you’re good. But add, add the experience element too. It’s like on the course, on the core side, when we talk about content, um, I think the, I think that the piece and if we draw it out as well as how that, so let me back up. It’s tripping over words a little bit. When we look at the core side, um, this idea of experience in and considering what the other person has to go through and what might get in the way for them. Accepting the content, uh, is, is a really important principle.
Brad: And it doesn’t just apply in the courses that applies everywhere else. And I think a lot of people are like, Oh, I’ve got content. It’s really, really good at what they forget is like, I can have the best life. You can bring me the best piece of like lemon cheesecake that there is, I don’t like cheesecake, I don’t like lemon. So you’re gonna have to do some work on me first before I can go consume that, that particular thing. So the key is, is whether it’s your content out here that’s on the ad side, whether it’s your lead, like your free reports, whatever it is you want to be considering. I’m about to deliver this content to somebody. What do I need to do to prepare them to receive it so that they’re way more likely to actually take action. Gotcha. Wow. All right. I just had this conversation with my daughter last night.
Shaina: What kind of, what piece of content she?
Brad: So we’ll say, I don’t want to go too much of a tangent, but they dance competitively, right? They’re really good. They travel all over the place. They’ll be in San Fran like in two weeks or whatever. Um, and uh, there’s a dance team at school that is not as competitive, not as good as she goes through a studio. I mean, yes, it’s like a different, yeah, it’s a different thing. But she sort of felt like she had to do it and she was going back and forth, and I just had to know. I’m like, listen, I’m like, you don’t have to, if you don’t want to just decide not to do it, but then you gotta to go tell people. And when you go tell people, like she’s very, uh, she’s very like dry humor and very short and succinct.
Brad: Um, and so she’s like, yeah, I told this person that I’m just not going to do it. I’m not going to do mobile bay or whatever it is. I’m like, hmm. If was talking, I think either to her dance teacher or something, like, something you might consider Jess, why don’t you might consider is you’re going to deliver a message to that person. Uh, and the way that they respond, we’ll have everything to do with how well you prepare them for that. So what it might look something rather than just, I’m not going do motivate it might look something like, okay, so look, I’ve been thinking about it a lot and I’m looking at like all the things that I’m committed to. And, uh, and I’m really trying to get clean and I do I really want that or not want that. As I look at it, I think I’ll just be happier and I’ll have more free time.
Brad: I can focus more on everything else in my life if I just don’t do mobile. So I decided not to do it. I just notice the difference in how it’s perceived. Right, right. And, and so, so I mean it’s a story on my daughter, so thank you for humoring me. But the point is, in business it’s the same thing. Like my brain is constantly chewing through. Okay, how do I tee this up? The reason why I went through this hierarchical overview is because I’m like, if you’re watching and we just start talking about content and you have no framework, it’s not going to make nearly as much sense to you or have nearly as much about your, so how do you prepare the person that’s about to receive what you’re delivering so that they’re more likely to receive it because they are the more likely to receive it, they’re more likely to take action. So I want to be thinking, what can I do to prepare them for what’s about to come?
Shaina: And that’s every piece of content.
Brad: Every single piece of content.
Shaina: I think that people get, they think that, okay, if somebody is opted into something that I’m going to deliver to them, that they think that the job is done on preparing them. You know,
Brad: Let’s do it the opposite in and the job’s done now I just have to deliver it. If they bought, the job’s done, I just have to deliver it. Right. If they scheduled a phone, like a sales phone call where they got on the weapon, I said, you get up and deliver the Webinar. No. Like you’re, you know, is the summary. I was going to like the answer is no. It’s like, like you, you have, all you’ve done is you have earned the opportunity to make a difference. Yeah. Um, and you can either just show up and cross your fingers and hope things work. By the way, the people that do have the same people are like, man, my lead magnet doesn’t convert. Or I got people that don’t show up on my sales call, grab these cells called they don’t like her, why aren’t people finishing my courses?
Brad: It’s like, well, the question is is what can you do to increase the likelihood that there’ll be open and receptive to receiving the content and then actually go to the next to go consume it. So that’s it. That’s a general, that’s a more general principle that applies across any content. I would just say like as you just add it into your, your thought process and logic, which is, okay, I’m going to go deliver this. Uh, what can I add at the very beginning that that prepares them for haters. We’re going to see and here’s what matters. Because most, most people cannot see what you are trying to get them to see unless you actually pointed out specifically. So even when you think it’s that obvious. Yeah. What does it look like for me is you’re going to send this, this whole interview out and if it were me, I would have like a 15 second clip on the front.
Brad: It’s like, hey look. So I sat down with Brad, here’s what we talked about and what I think will be really yeah, goal is if you pay attention to at like 12 minutes and 37 seconds, we talked about this and here’s how it applies. And if you’re in this kind of business, you really want to look at this and now what you’ve done is you’ve raised their awareness, um, to specific spots in the content and you’ve also created that they’re gonna be more likely to go consume it. Like you kind of tee it up for them and that could happen in the email or whatever, but it’s just, it’s in the teeing up and preparing them to content. So, um, yeah. Awesome. What else? What else? Okay, so you were moving backwards from what we’re delivering, right? So what’s the next step? Do you continue going backwards from there or what?
Shaina: I know that’s where you start.
Brad: Yeah. So, so we’ve got good, they bought a thing and if it’s a service, like we do services, it’s like what content do I like? How can I leverage content and deliver it? We’ve got people here for two days right now. How can I deliver content leading up to somebody coming out for a service or a project doesn’t have to be in person. It can be remote. But how do I deliver content so that they’re ready, that they’re, they’re more prepared for what we’re about to go do. Like for example, you come out and you do interviews and there can be like, okay, booked an interview, I’m going to send this so that I can tell Brad to be ready and know exactly what it is he needs to be ready around. So he’s better prepared and more comfortable.
Brad: Like I’m pretty comfortable on camera. And my guess is you’ve interviewed some people that are maybe less comfortable on campus, right? So there’s like a, what can you send this? Just this happens automatically that prepares them. So that’s still, that’s still after they bought. But there’s leveraging cons to prepare. Going back from that now what I’m looking at is I’m looking at the people that I’m about to sell. So, um, we’ve got a sales conversation. Almost everybody that buys from us as we were buying and they see me on stage. And even then we send them to a conversation or they’re buying after a sales conversation over the phone. So the question then is, okay, what, um, how do I architect that sales conversation? What content do I need? And then also what content can I put in front of it? They schedule and request a time to meet with us.
Brad: What, what content can I send to prepare them? Um, so that they’re more likely and they’re there. They’re better prepared to actually have a real genuine sales conversation. You do any sales conversations you ever had, one where like you showed up in 30 seconds and you’re like, I should not have been a phone call it or you ever had when we showed up. And it’s like you’re 15, 20 minutes and you’re saying the same thing you said on the other 30 phone calls that you had because you’re repeating yourself and you’re like, oh, there’s no way we’re gonna get this done in less than like three hours because you’re not even speaking the same language. Right? Yeah. So, so how do I take content and PR? All it is is it’s just a lack of preparation. What you want to talk about. They don’t. It’s because you do this all day long and they don’t.
Brad: So how do I leverage my content to better prepare somebody for that sales conversation, whether it’s on a Webinar or whether it’s one on one over the phone or in person. It’s how do leverage content and use content actually prepare people for that conversation. So when I get it, I’m like, what if it were like I got, I’m like, oh yeah, I already know all about you. Like we’re, we’re just reiterating the details of like where you were born or where you grew up or what the, what the call’s about. Like you’ve already anchored that using contents so that when you got on the call, it’s not like, all right, let’s start from scratch. Every single call. Right? Right, right. So that’s another place to use Khan. It’s like, go look at where, how are you selling people into this? And let’s go look at that content and let’s see how we can better architect at better structure it to better prepare people, um, to get into, you know, whatever their product or service is.
Shaina: Is there a sweet spot on how many touch points from booking a sales call to getting to that call?
Brad: Um, I mean, I was going to say no, but the reality is yes, there is. I mean, cause you’re, you’re probably not going to schedule a call for more than like a week out or something. Right? Right. So if you’re talking a week out Max, you’ve got an immediate confirmation that’ll be like, hey, go check these things out and then you’ve got a day off follow up. That’ll happen. And then depending on how far out they are, there’s probably one or two months, it’s probably three or four. Okay. Um, and, and again, it’s, I got three to four chances to get ahold of this person before actually get on with this person. Yeah. And deliver it to them information that then I don’t have to repeat. Right. And I can just be like, hey, so remember if you watched the video and then you can track and see if they watched the video.
Brad: And there’s not, depending on how hard core you are, if not, you’re like, I am not getting a phone call with you. Yeah. Because if you don’t like, if you don’t care enough about what we’re talking about, which by the way is going to solve a problem for you. But if you don’t care about enough about what we’re talking about to go watch some prep stuff so that our time is valuable, then why would I care about it? Right. So I’d say that’s probably three to four. Okay. It makes sense as a general roll sound.
Shaina: It’s so funny cause as you’re talking, my gears are turning about like how we’re gonna start implementing all it’s, it’s cause you talking about, I’m like, that’s so obvious, but it’s not something that’s obvious to us. It’s like kind of when I talk about like certain re purposing stuff, I’m like, well obviously, but it’s not to everybody else. It’s great.
Brad: What I’ve found is there are certain true principles and uh, those true principles are obvious when you hear them. Okay.
Brad: Like, oh, how did I not think of that?
Shaina: I feel sitting here.
Brad: So no cause somebody else all of their life going through and figuring out the nuances to get to like that point of clarity like theirs. That’s why we all specialize in the things that we specialize in and we, if we swapped it around you’re like, I’m going to start talking about the stuff that I do. I, yeah. Holy Crap. That makes it a whole lot of sense. Why didn’t I think of that? Well it’s because I was thinking about the thing that I do.
Shaina: Yeah. Everyday. So have you ever gotten to a point where like you feel like the things that you’re saying like, like you and probably not now, can you speak on a lot of stages, but like I sometimes feel like I’m a super redundant and that people were sick of hearing what it is and I’m talking about, but you’re talking to new audiences. So I have to remind myself that like, these people haven’t heard this yet.
Brad: Board, right. It’s the, and, and then I have to remind myself too, like there’s a whole other generation that’s coming in, like the people that know it, like it recycles, like we’re just going to be relearning the same things that every generation has to relearn a lot of the same lessons over and over again. It’s like, yeah, just don’t, don’t get bored.
Shaina: It’s crazy. I said, I feel like a broken record sometimes, but ultimately it’s helping people. So, Yup. So, okay.
Brad: So, so if we go backwards a little bit more, so you’ve got the, the whole goal of the sales environment is to break down everything to get somebody to buy. And then if we go backwards, I’ve gotten leads that are coming in and my lead magnet and my free report, the whole point of that is to get to break down any barriers to get somebody wanna get on a phone conversation. Yeah. Um, and then I think the, uh, I think the really interesting, one of the really powerful one is this idea of the reengagement. And this longterm followup because if you have people that request to a free report, you send him some follow ups but they don’t convert to a sales conversation. They drop out. Yeah. What do you do with those people? If you have a sales conversation with someone they don’t buy, they fall out.
Brad: What’s happening to those people? You have some of the bought your first product and then didn’t buy anything else and they drop out and you got this, like you paid money, you spent time and energy on them and the mode for the most part, it’s just people that weren’t ready yet. Right. So the question is what are you going to do with those people? Yeah. Where, where do they go? And in reengagement, what I’ve found, and this goes directly back to conduct, what I found is like if you’re going to hire or get somebody to hire you to do some work, um, there’s probably three or four or five, like primary reasons why, uh, why somebody would sign up with you. And they’re different. So, for example, like we had a client that was in the, they sold the prepackaged meals that they would send home to you.
Brad: They’d mail to your house and you can just eat them. Yeah, people would buy that for convenience. So yeah, some people are like, I’m buying it because I want to make my own food. You’ve got people that are buying for um, you have people that are buying for like health, they want healthier food. And then you’ve got people that are, I’m trying to go with the third one is, but there are three, three different primary reasons and their ads usually all around one reason. So if they don’t buy for that, you’ve got an opportunity to create content around. The other two were the other three. And so you’ve got this sort of, you’ve got this reengagement, these, let’s call them minions. We’ve got these meetings going to be like, hey, you didn’t buy for a reason. A let me tell you about reason to, and I’m just, I’m still providing value.
Shaina: So I’ve got this, I’ve got this whole system where I bring people in with content. I got my, my first attempt and I captured a lead, how do I get them to convert to a sales conversation? If not, they dropped down here and I’ve got this reengagement says, cool, well let me, let me try. Let me try a different angle and I’ll see if I can get them interested. And if they don’t respond well let me try a different angle. Let me try a different angle. And when you do it right, like you can have 90 to 182 like a year’s worth of followup that’s just happening, providing value. It’s all just running automatically. That’s the world that I live in and it’s all running automatically, but it’s providing value on different topics and all of those topics, they’re not orphaned, right? So they all tie back to the same reason why the person came to you in the first place. So you create this, you create this vacuum where you stop losing people, they’re having a better experience, they’re getting better educated, they’re getting more value, and ultimately is going to end up in you making more money.
Shaina: Yeah, I am nerding out on the three things that they would off, man. I’m so excited. Um, are all right. So that basically I the well of people who are already here, they’ve engaged in some capacity. Like that’s a valuable group of people. Am I wrong? Like how do you, what, what conversion rates do you usually see with that? Well, if want, I mean obviously that’s kind of a loaded question.
Brad: I’ll give you the answer I give everybody, which is like I don’t ask her that question. Okay. Cause they’re all over the place. Right. The point is, here’s what I know. What I know is the majority of people that you capture leads are not ready to do business today. Um, and the majority of people sell to the people that are ready to do business today. So they’re pumping content, they’re pumping sales comp pump and advertising dollars. They create people to talk with. They closed down the people that are ready today and on the people fall out and then they spend money to go get that person to come back around again when they already paid for them. So the, the idea of this reengagement is like, I don’t know, but I know that there’s a, there’s more people that go into that bucket that are still interested in, we’ll buy most likely in the next 90 days or so.
Brad: And I need to do 180 days there will still buy. Um, but I don’t have anything in place to actually stay in touch with them like we didn’t buy today. And all I gotta do is I’ve got my calendar, I just got to call people. So when you can leverage your content and in La and a lot of cases, just repurpose the content you’re putting out here. You’re repurposable, you had some automation. Now that I have your info, I don’t have to wait for you to go find my Facebook page and find my content. I can actually just put you through a system that says, hey, you gotta go check this thing out or go check this thing out or go check this thing out. And that’s one of the pieces that most people, um, most people don’t have in place. And it, it’s like a travesty for someone that does content cause you the biggest reason why you wouldn’t, it’s cause like I don’t have a lot of content, which is also a farce. It’s a whole separate conversation because you can just go get it. But if you have the content, it’s just, it’s like, it’s like a catch all this says I’m going to catch all the people that are already paid money to get and then I’m going to repurpose all of my content to get them to come back around and eventually give me money.
Shaina: Yeah. And people, one misconception is that people think their existing content is old news and it’s like you that can be,
Brad: That’s right. It’s, it’s a, in Spanish you can put your adjective or a word either before or after. It means different things. Yeah. One case it means that it’s a new thing. Like I just bought this from the store today and then the other case it means it’s new to me. And so like the content may not be new to the business, but it’s new to me when you introduced it to me. Right. So how long do you think, that’s a great analogy. I love that show. So you’ve got, you’ve got to not forget that cause that’s where people get bored. It’s like, oh well this, I’ve said this over and over again. Everybody’s bored. No, you said it too. You said at one time everybody, right. But you said it to a hundred people. So you’ve heard it a hundred times, but everybody else is on here at one time.
Brad: Right. So you’ll be all right. And by the way, believe it or not, um, even if you said it 10 times to one person, they don’t know what you’re saying. They have not gotten it all. Yeah. Like I could do this exact same conversation with somebody 15 times and then come back like, oh you mean I could do this bro? I’m going to say in that. Yeah. So it’s, so it’s just something to remember in terms of content. It’s like, yeah, people will, they will gather something different every time because they are changing in their experiences and what they gather is based on them more than it is based on what you actually producing the content.
Shaina: Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve made it all the way almost back to the very front end. Right? Yup. We dove into that piece. Is there any overlying arc, I mean obviously most of what you’re saying touches on all the types of content that we talked about, but is there anything that you feel like you haven’t touched on?
Brad: You’ll know one thing I would add is that when we get into the lead world and then in the advertising world, um, is, is I found more success when I create that stuff. Like I could charge for it. Yeah. So I just have a different level of, of commitment to quality in terms of what I’m creating. So for me, whenever I’m creating content, um, I, and you gotta be careful cause obviously you’d want to give away what you’re selling. You got to keep an economic engine right in place. But I like to create the content and I like to create it. I’m always trying to think of, um, so, so two thoughts. One, I want the value to be such that like I would be comfortable charging for it and even if it’s like I could turn 100 bucks for this or 200 bucks for like legitimately the amount of time is going to save you from having to go through all the resources you have to do just to learn this thing.
Brad: I’d be totally happy charging money for it. And I don’t because, and I know I’ve got good quality content. It’s not this thing that I just hired a ghost writer to write in like 15 minutes and I’m going like, oh, it’s content. Um, so that, that’s one. And then, um, I talked too long on that to over the second one because the second ones, second one’s important. Um, okay. So make sure your content is okay. And the second thing is in all of your content, um, don’t forget this idea of intrigue, optimization. So I can with this term, you want to intrigue, optimize your content. Okay. Um, and what I mean by that is when you deliver the content, um, you have to be paying attention to their awareness at all times. Like are they intrigued by this? Because a lot of times people have really good content and they delivered in a way that it sounds just horribly boring, right?
Brad: It’s like, okay, and then there’s this and this and this. So intrigue optimization for me is actually looking at what I’m about to go say and one about to go deliver and asking. I’m asking the question, okay, am I going to deliver this in a way that’s going to turn them off, right? Or Am I going to deliver this in a way that increases their excitement about the con? So like you can, I can deliver things in a way to have you be like, oh, that’s dope. Or I could live in a way where it’s like, I’ve heard that before. Yeah. So you want to make sure you intrigue, optimize your content and that that is something you do afterwards. So you create all the content and you come back around and say, okay, now how do I deliver this in a way that people would be like, oh, got it.
Shaina: Um, okay. So then the last question that I ask everybody is what is something, cause I mean there’s so much you’re like, is this fully loaded? I’m super pumped about it. But what is one thing like out of all the things you’ve talked about or even something completely separate that somebody’s watching or listening can do in the next 48 hours without a team of like 15 people that will make a difference in their, their clients or like their lean journey. Uh Huh.
Brad: Uh, okay. So here’s what I would do. Step one is identify which piece of content. So we’ve kind of talked about the whole business, right? So identify which piece of content you believe is like the most impactful and critical piece in your business. So for some people would be like, Oh the course, if I could get that thing down, then it’s great. Other people might be, oh, there’s something in my sales conversations. Or there’s a lead thing where there’s my front end content. Identify which piece of content it has. The biggest lever is the biggest lever that you can pull. Yeah. Um, so pick that first cause we want to start where you can have the biggest impact. And then the second thing that I would do is with that piece of content, I would look at it through the Lens of, uh, two things, value and experience.
Brad: So have I actually done anything to prepare the person that’s going to receive this piece of content so that they’re more likely to receive it? And then the second thing I would do is look at it through the lens of intrigue, optimization. Does this sound like everybody else is trying to say this or have I created a unique spin that would be like, oh, I never, I never thought of that. Like I never, I never thought of it that way before. Um, so I think from a content standpoint, I would say what’s the most impactful? And then two things. One, how do I, how do I modify it slightly so that I’m better preparing the person to receive that? They’re more likely, they’re going to be in a better position to actually receive it. And then, and then part of that would be how by entry optimize it. How do I make it so that it’s unique and it doesn’t sound like what everybody else is saying. And if you do that with the most impactful piece of content in your business, you’re going to see an immediate result. Cause that’s where you got most of the people coming through and you’re gonna upgrade it, which means you’re gonna get an upgraded result. That’s what I would do in the next 48 hours. And then by the way, the next 48 hours after that, just pick the next month for a piece of content with the exact same thing again. Yeah, you got a couple of weeks ahead of you.
Shaina: Okay. So if people watching this are like, yeah, that’s all awesome and everything that you said is great and we will see you in action. How are they going to see your stuff?
Brad: Go to SixthDivision.com we’re on Facebook as well. Uh, ready when it goes six [inaudible] dot com there’s stuff on there, this content on there, you can reach out to us and then Facebook. We’ve got stuff on there as well.
Shaina: And often it’s whatever they got going and see the magic happening. Right on. Thank you so much. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks guys. Thank you so much for checking out this episode of the content coalition. Now, whether you’re listening or watching, make sure that you subscribe to the Youtube Channel and to whatever platform you’re listening to it on because you’re not going to want to miss out on the incredible things that I’m learning with these amazing content marketing pros. So make sure you subscribe and we will talk to you next week.