Episode 026

Joanna Wiebe

CEO of Copyhackers

Why Most Business’ Copywriting Sucks And How to Ensure

You’re Not Part of This Money-Losing Wheel 

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About This Episode

In this episode of The Content Coalition, we interview Joanna Wiebe, CEO of Copyhackers, a company of copywriting for startups and marketers.

Joanna is also the Copy Chief at CH Agency. Thousands of students take her training, and she’s been invited to teach conversion copywriting to a world of marketers at events like Conversions @ Google, CXL Live, Mozcon and INBOUND.

Tune in as Joanna shares some of the best practices in copywriting to make sure that your content stands out from the crowd, and a bright idea on how you can find your copy through Amazon reviews.

What You’ll Learn

  • [01:55] Joanna’s journey before Copyhackers and how copywriting became her business
  • [05:03] Learn the different types of copywriting – especially in the world of marketing
  • [06:43] The common pitfalls and mistakes when creating copy 
  • [09:29] Joanna demystifies some common practices in copywriting that don’t really convert
  • [13:05] Joanna shares super specific examples of ridiculous, stellar headlines that you can do
  • [17:06] How they used Amazon to do something called “review mining” to find your copy
  • [22:27] Learn the best practices you can do off the cuff on writing landing pages 
  • [29:27] 1 thing to implement in the next 48 hours

About Shaina

Shaina Weisinger is the Founder and CEO of Repurpose House, which turns long-form content into optimized videos and images for high engagement social media strategies. Shaina has a background in video production for digital marketing and is on a mission to show content creators the untapped potential and repurposing power of the content that they already have. She has taught about content in many publications including DigitalMarketer, Inc., and Startup Nation, and continuously offers valuable takeaways by interviewing industry experts from world-recognized brands such as GoDaddy, HubSpot, MarketingProfs, and more through her video podcast, The Content Coalition. She loves to laugh loudly, be obnoxiously competitive on the volleyball court, treat her dogs as her kin, and recover from tripping on or running into almost everything within a five-foot radius. Learn more about Shaina here: ShainaWeisinger.com

Read Episode 026 Transcriptions

Shaina: I’m Shaina. I love dogs. I trip a lot and I happen to have a knack for making pretty sweet videos for businesses. But the more videos we made, the more questions I got about how video and other content can be leveraged to make a bigger impact in their marketing. I mean 44% of marketers say that producing content is their biggest challenge, yet content marketing is 62% less expensive than outbound and produces three times more leads. Now I know a lot, but I certainly don’t know it all. So I made it my mission to talk with content, kings, queens and bosses to learn as much as I could about crushing content marketing. And I’m taking you along with me. Welcome to the content coalition,

Shaina: Hello again, content coalition, Shaina here, founder of Repurpose House and I have a really, really cool guest on today. Uh, Joanna Wiebe. She is the CEO of Copyhackers. This Copyhackers is incredible. I’ve been combing the site and it’s literally like the source of all things copywriting. Um, I mean, whether you’re a freelancer, whether you’re somebody who’s looking to like actually make copy that converts, which is something that I struggle with and I’m sure everybody else does. Um, she’s been asked to speak at like every conference known to man and she has cats that don’t like travel. So while she may not have been at all of them, she keeps getting asked, which to me is, um, just kind of a testament to all of the stuff she’s putting online. She’s got courses that are incredible. I’ve been stuck on those landing pages, scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, which to me is a testament to how amazing she is at creating copy because we’re talking like, you know, on the right hand side, we’ve got those, the scroll bar, it’s like this tiny, tiny, and I got like halfway down. I’m like, oh my gosh, I have to get on this interview. So, um, I’m really excited to introduce her. Joanna, thank you so much for being with us today.

Joanna: Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m stoked to be here as be fun.

Shaina: Awesome. Okay. So first thing’s first, how did you get started with copy hackers? Let’s hear a little bit about your journey.

Joanna: Yeah. Uh, so my journey started with accidentally quitting my job. I had an in house job. Um, so I was working at a big tech company, which is great. Um, but I didn’t enjoy my boss very much and um, which is pretty difficult, right. The reason you leave is in the company. It’s usually the boss. Yeah. So I had written, um, my, I quit email a thousand times. Like after every meeting with my boss, I was like, ah, let go write it and then get it onto my system. And then I would delete it and move on with my life and stay at the job. And then one day, it was a Friday afternoon and I wrote the, I quit email and then my partner at the time, I worked from home and so he brought me a glass of wine. Okay. Jo, Call Down Jo. Um, and then I think it was another glass later that I went back to my inbox and I thought I sent one email but I actually sent the, I quit email.

Shaina: Oh my gosh.

Joanna: By the time I realized that I was like, oh crap, maybe I’ll try to retreat it. But it had already been opened so I couldn’t get it back. So that me doing my own thing, which was great because I’d already been setting up my own thing. I had written a really big ebook with lots of case studies because I was working with, I was free. I was, I was doing work for free. I wasn’t freelancing. I was just like helping people out. Cause I love working with startups. So I’ve been working with a bunch of startups that I met through a website called y Combinator, which is otherwise known as hacker news cause I’ve been doing work with them and putting this big ebook together to help startups figure out how to write their own copy. Cause like that’s a really big miss for a lot of single founders who are usually engineers and they have like this thing they’re building and they don’t get that you’re not selling the thing you’re building, you’re selling the customer, like your hockey creates customers.

Joanna: Um, and so they weren’t seeing it that way. So I wrote the book to teach them that and when I accidentally quit my job, I was like, maybe I’ll put the book out. So I did. And that was the beginning of copy hackers. Wow. That’s quite, the story. Has nothing like a couple of glasses of wine and sending the wrong emails to get you started on your own journey. I know. And I’m actually such a lightweight, I think that it was one glass. I just actually finished it, which was more than my body wanted, which is hard to admit sometimes, but it’s like sometimes you know, just that one glass, we’ll do it.

Shaina: Holy Cow. Well that’s a crazy, awesome story. I love that you were working with startups kind of just for free to help them get the messaging right, you know?

Joanna: Yeah. It was. It’s a really, it’s just always been fun. Um, you know, like when you work in a big tech company, you’re so far removed from what small businesses do, like the real scrappy little upstarts. Um, so it was just a nice break from like writing about software that’s like got a billion users that had a billion. Right on. Okay. So then let’s just dive into like what copywriting is, because I think that there’s so many different ideas that everybody thinks of. Like is it just writing an ebook or is it just writing a blog isn’t even writing a blog. I mean, let’s talk about kind of the different types and why they’re important and totally depends on who you ask. Because of that coffee blurb on the back, like on the back of a book is coffee and a journalist fills a page with copy. But in the world of marketing, copywriting is generally, uh, the words that you use to get to yes.

Joanna: So if you’re not trying to get to yes, you’re probably not meaning to exercise copywriting practices and principles. So if you’re writing a blog post where by the end of the post you don’t want anybody to actually take an you outside of maybe leading a comment or doing something in social, but your whole, it’s not [inaudible] to get them to say yes to a thing. Then we defined that as content writing. When you’re trying to get to a yes, like writing the uh, opt in page for a lead magnet, like an Ebook, um, then you’re writing copy and you want to use copyright different schools to get the yes, that’s a good, there’s like a straight line to the yes. With copywriting and there’s like a dotted squiggly line toward a points of yes. With content writing.

Shaina: Very cool. I love that. That is the simplest way to break that down. I love it. Now I can completely differentiate the difference between like just getting to the, yes, I love that. Um, so what are some of the common, like super glaring mistakes that people don’t realize they’re making and copywriting?

Joanna: Um, the biggest thing, no matter what I do, I can teach lots of different principles. But the biggest problem is when it comes down to you and that page and you’ve got this, you know the practices in your head, but there’s like this, it’s like an art. This distance between what you know and your keyboard, something gets lost between like the head and the keyboard, like there’s this space here where you let your third grade English teacher, your eighth grade English teacher, your mom, that book you read, you let it all in and it goes from you being clearly able to talk about the thing that you’re selling and why it’s so awesome to you trying to write something in six words that are perfect before you and you’re editing it as it’s making its way out of your brain toward the keyboard. So my, that’s a mistake and like the flip side of that is just stop doing it. Like try to make an ugly first draft. Like what if it’s the ugliest thing you’ve ever written? Good. Start there. Just get crap down on the page without editing at all. Don’t let yourself edit. That’s usually the best solve for that big problem.

Shaina: That is terrifying to me because not like filtering how I’m putting things on a, on paper or like I know word doc is like so foreign in my brain.

Joanna: I know it’s so hard to do. It’s so hard to get out of that practice and we’ve got so much crap beaten into our heads over our entire, like everything you did in school, no matter how far you went, you’re always criticized and had to second guess your writing along the way. And you always thought it was about you too. Like it’s a reflection of you and that’s the opposite of coffee. It’s not even, it’s not about you in any way and it shouldn’t be a reflection of you. And as soon as it sounds like good copy, it’s probably wrong. So that’s something that people just don’t get that I really wish that we didn’t call it writing at all. Like it’s not writing, it’s using letters and words and like, not even grammar but like sentences. Um, but it’s not to do what we all think writing is there to do basically. But 5% of what you know about writing will actually help you be a better copywriter. Everything else you have to throw up.

Shaina: So, so that, that is um, super scary along with the not editing yourself on paper. So like when you say that what you think is good copywriting is probably not good copywriting. Like what are some examples of terrible things that people think are a good thing that outside of like the editing themselves but like physical practices that people are doing that may, they might think is awesome but it’s just a no, no go in conversions.

Joanna: Yeah, it’s the six word rolling. Like everybody thinks the headline should be four to six words and then they wonder why it all sounds the same like and why nobody remembers anything and you don’t stand out. So we see like a save time with save money with or the worst is save time and money with and what’s, what’s bad is that those are the ones that are board room is most likely to sign off on. So if you write your own copy or if you write for someone else, the copy that feels safest is that six word headline. It’s not going to be something that pushes anyone out of their comfort zone. As soon as someone reviewing copy feels something about the copy, they think, oh no, it’s wrong. Don’t do that. Cause if I felt that someone else is going to feel it and what if they feel it wrong and do we want people to feel anything? I kind of want to be invisible when it comes down to it. And so do you feel safe in these messages and you stick with those messages and you wonder why nobody’s really converting in anything. Well, copy doesn’t convert because I’m writing copy and it’s not working, but you’re not.

Joanna: You’re just writing what feels safe. And really good copy follows what’s called the breakthrough or bust approach. So when you write something, you should look at it afterward and say, could this either be a breakthrough or a bust? And I don’t know which one it is. Because you’re pushing things so far out of your comfort zone. It doesn’t mean you have to go dramatically crazy. I don’t remember zone, but pushing it beyond save time and money to save $56 in the first four weeks. Okay. That could either be a bust because people want to save more money than that. They don’t want to spend that much time. Or it could be a total breakthrough because it’s finally saying something real. I don’t know which one it is, but I’m confident that it’s saying something real so I’m gonna put it out there. That’s when you’re getting, I’m not saying that’s great copy either because it’s written on the fly right now, like I don’t know, but it’s at least pushing toward the state of discomfort and that’s when you’re usually doing things right. I don’t know if that’s true.

Shaina: That really it really does. Yeah, because we’ll, like you were saying initially, if you write the, the copy that or the headline that makes you feel comfortable. Like you don’t, you want people to feel something when they read it. Right. So if you don’t feel anything, then how do you think somebody who’s scrolling through is gonna feel anything? Totally.

Joanna: Who has a million different competitors they could be choosing and a million different things they could be doing. Like literally cat videos are the greatest gifts to marketers ever because now we’re all living in a world where we’re like well done. Get good. Yes. Cause we know that there’s always another tab or there’s another distraction or something that’s better than what you’ve just written. So your copy has to keep them there. And if it’s save time with, it’s not going to keep them there at all. You’d have to be a very boring person to stick around with a message like that and almost nobody’s born today, not, I mean we’re born in lots of ways, but we’ve got loads of distractions to get us back to interested.

Shaina: For sure. So I’m going to put you on the spot. Do you have any examples of like just ridiculously stellar headlines that pop out in your mind?

Joanna: So I actually had somebody wrote page, which I’m going to actually just bring it up one sec. Let me see if I have it kind of because I wish I did right now. Okay. Okay. Okay. Here we go. It is for an engineer analytics platform. Okay. So we work with a lot of tech companies and this one in particular, um, uh, they do, they help people measure how their engineers are basically spending their time not for the purposes of like big brothering but to say like, um, how can I coach you better or are you stuck in code that nobody else can see? Things like that. So it’s this enterprise focused software solution that’s, that’s really technical. Um, and what she wrote in this headline, which she just wrote this as someone on my team and I’m not sure if we’re going to go through with it, but it’s pretty good on the breakthrough robust principal.

Joanna: Uh, the headline is, is steel software engineering best practices from the company that builds iron man suits for engineers. Now what the hell is that like talking about different enough. And now we don’t just want to do an exercise in being different because that can be like a new, a new form of chewing gum. But [inaudible] we have to be pushing beyond our boundaries. And what’s interesting there is language that will make you feel uncomfortable, like steal software engineering best practices. That’s a scary word. Steel isn’t a word that a lot of people feel comfortable putting out in associating with their brand. Um, the company that builds iron man suits for engineers, it’s, it’s, it’s not an iron man suit. It’s taking data about what I actually did as an engineer and doing something with it that turns them into a sort of super hero is the general idea.

Joanna: But it’s at least applying really old school best practices in making a headline, not just say like the TLDR or like the too long didn’t read like the summary, but rather making it say something that’s going to like intrigued you immediately. Like grab your attention and make you want to keep reading. And that’s what really good copywriting does, gets lost all the time. So that’s an example of it’s stellar one where it’s different enough. We still don’t know if we’re going to move forward with it. It might need a little bit of refining anyway, but other ones that don’t have to push quite that far. We had one headline, uh, for, uh, Florida based Rehab. Um, so rehab and rehab centers are highly competitive and you know, there’s a lot in Florida, a lot of people go to Florida to go through treatment. Yeah. When we were tasked with writing the homepage headline for this particular Rehab Center, um, which you know, when you, when you have people, you have what, 20, 40 beds in your rehab.

Joanna: They each sell for about $20,000 a month. So when you think of what the cost of an empty bed, if you’ve got 20, 40 beds in your rehab and you’ve got two empty beds a month because you’re not bringing in enough leads and converting them, it is a business when it comes down to it, a business that should be selling something extraordinarily valuable in the end and actually producing great results naturally. But when you have these empty beds, it could be costing you 20, 40, 60, $80,000 a month just because you’ve left them open. There’s huge opportunity costs there. So our job was to say, okay, how do we get people to understand that they should move forward with saying yes to at least a consult with this particular Rehab Center. So if I’m somebody who’s going through and looking at different rehabs in Florida, either for myself because I’m finally ready for this or for my family member because I’m hopeful we can make this happen, I’m going to look at maybe six difference rehab centers, maybe three if I’m like really busy and kind of fatigued by the whole thing.

Joanna: And when we did a content audit or messaging audit, we looked at, everybody was basically saying the same thing, like it’s peaceful. No one is really saying anything. So we went and uh, we did research into what people actually say when they’re talking about going through rehab. And one of them, the things that we do there is we went over to Amazon, this was a couple of years ago when Amazon wasn’t as filled with a lot of page reviews, which we’re seeing more of now, which is unfortunate. But this was like four ish years ago. And we looked at the reviews on books associated with um, dealing with addiction, alcoholism, 12 step programs, all of that. And we didn’t look at the books. That wasn’t the point. The point was what are people saying in the comments about the books which can reveal what was going on in their lives that they were hoping to fix the problems that they actually have their hopes, dreams for actually like getting a solution to such a big problem.

Joanna: When we looked through the comments, we just, it’s called Ruby mining. When we looked through them, we saw a bunch of different statements, but one of the things that stood out was this phrase that was, if you think you need rehab, you do. And I was like, Huh, hmm. Okay, that’s interesting. Why am I pausing on this? I’m pausing on it. That’s usually, if anybody, if you pause on anything, that’s usually a good sign that there’s something good there. Take it as it is. Don’t edit it, just take it as it is and see if you can use it in any way. So we took it. We were like, well let’s try that as a headline on this homepage. And so we tested, if you think you need rehab, you do against a more typical message that was already the control and against a data point and against the testimonials.

Joanna: So data points about success and then a testimonial about the awesomeness of this into to the Rehab Center. And we internally like myself and the consultant that we were working with, we were like, which one do we think is gonna win? Cause that’s a fun part of Ab testing. Let’s put some money down on this one. We didn’t actually gamble on it. That would be hugely inappropriate, but we did like all like which one do you think? And nobody including myself voted for. If you think you need rehab, you do. And of course you put it out there and it just blew everything else out of water. Like we had, not just, we had 400% more people clicking through to the next page, which is I clicked through. It was a great metric. Usually generating a lead or generating a sale is a great metric, but the leads, a generation happens on the next page, the next page we still saw an increase.

Joanna: I think it was nearly twice the leads on the next page, which says a lot about the power of that headline because a headline can usually only really operate on the page that it’s on. Like it’s not going to carry people through an entire experience. And in this case it carried them through that short funnel to become a lead. So what’s interesting there is if you think you need rehab, you do, nobody thought it was going to win. And that’s an important lesson for anybody. Writing Coffee, the thing you think sounds great and as likely to win probably. Is it the actual language that people are using that prospects and customers and past customers are using to describe their problems, their needs, what they want from the solution that you’re providing. That’s where the best copy is found. And if you can just listen closely and not mess with it too much, you can do pretty great things. But our problem is always, and I mean ours as in all people is we think we need to rework it until it sounds really smooth or it doesn’t make us feel kind of jarred out of our expectations. Um, so yeah, those are my two big headlines that I think are, I know there’s a long answer to your question.

Shaina: I love it. I love that. Like I think that, um, the testing part of it to me is a huge, a huge like element because how do you know if it’s working unless you’re testing it against something else? How, how often do you guys test copy against with each other?

Joanna: as often as possible? I mean, the people love to say test everything, which you can test everything. You can test big elements though. And if you have enough traffic and the right conversion rate going into it, once those factors are in place, as long as you’re testing something that’s prominent, then we can test it. Or we do what’s called a dramatically different design where we, if you have a homepage, that’s one thing we’re like, we’re going to throw that one out and we’re going to Redo it with copywriting frameworks and voice of customer data and other copywriting best practices. We’re going to go over and do a brand new one, do an ab test there. And we often do those. But sometimes you just can’t. So now I would say about half the time we test.

Shaina: Gotcha. Right on. So when it, so that’s, this is all headlines we’re talking about and there’s obviously so much more to copywriting too. Like we in just out of pure self interest, we are dealing with landing pages right now. So what are some best practices that you can just off the cuff, help me and others who are in this, in this scenario where we’re like, oh man, landing pages are like, they’re really amazing because they can be so pointed like they have, they’re supposed to be extremely pointed. Um, but like how much is too much? How much is too little? Like I’m second guessing everything. Kind of like you said, the nature is the second guess everything you’re writing, right? But I know that there are best practices. So, um, let’s hear some of those.

Joanna: Sure. The best, best practice that I say when you’re going into writing a landing page is follow what’s called the rule of one. There were four parts to the rule of one. Before you write anything, you want to identify who that one reader is. One reader people love to. They’re like, well, this guy, but also this guy. Let’s squeeze in something about that. And it’s like, no, no, no. That’s two landing pages now. So two landing pages for two readers. Um, so you have one reader, one big idea, one promise and one offer or the one reader is foundational. It’s, you can’t do if you get everything else right, but you get that wrong. You’re asked. So start with your one reader, then think about your one offer. Okay? So an offer is like in the case of the landing page, often like an ebook or a book of, or watch the video or whatever that might be.

Joanna: That’s the offer. The thing that you want them to do or take advantage of her basically say yes to, but you need to pull more levers than just saying like, oh, download ebook because obviously there’s more to it than that. So people like to do, you know, fascinations and things in the coffee to make you want that one off or more. But is there anything you can do to help a person better understand the actual value of that thing? And it doesn’t mean a price, you don’t. If it’s a free Ebook, you don’t have to say it’s seven 95 actually. Although that if it actually is sold somewhere for someone to buy before you could sell it on Amazon, sometimes I might as well then you can at least do that. But you have to, you have to work hard on that offer. So you’ve got one reader, one offer that has to matter to your one reader, then a one big idea that’s overarching for it.

Joanna: So what’s like the unexpected awesomeness of downloading this ebook? Like, and it has to be something, a big idea is a hard thing. Don’t get me wrong. So don’t overshoot when you’re first trying to just try to have an idea that is a thread throughout the page. And the page might be 80 words, maybe 200 words and might be this big or I might be like enormous. But for a landing page it’s probably going to be like a lot of above the fold stuff. So what’s the one unifying idea on this page? And again that comes down to it’s either save time or save money, not the two ideas we want one idea. And when your client or your like what it really is two things. Nope you have to work hard to get it down to one thing. What does your one reader chair about most if it were like you’re going to save 60 hours or are you going to save $6,000 what does your one reader care about most?

Joanna: Are they time poor or are they money for and if they want to save $6,000 then their money for and don’t worry about time. Time doesn’t matter. Money matters to them. Focus on money. So that’s the one thing idea. And then one promise is really like, what’s the one big outcome that they can expect from this? Like a real outcome. It doesn’t have to change their life, but it doesn’t have to be something that’s like, I can actually imagine my life getting better ideally pretty soon once I take advantage of this. So the rule of one is one reader, one big idea, one promise and one offer. Start there and you can quickly eliminate messages that don’t need to be on there. You can say like, does this really matter to my one reader or am I missing something that does matter to my one reader and that makes writing a landing page.

Joanna: I would, I write them way faster when I have that done and when someone can’t identify those things for me, it’s just so much harder to write it. So that’s my number one rule. That’s awesome. So outline those four things first and then start writing your copy based on each element. Yeah. Where you would then want to choose a copywriting framework that’s like, okay, maybe attention, interest, desire, action or problem, agitation, solution, whatever that is. And then use what the customer says, what that one reader says to fill in those gaps. So it gets somewhat formulaic where you can get down to a place of saying, okay, about 80% of my work and writing this landing page comes from other things. It’s not me sitting there staring at the page going like, what? Why should someone care about this? I think I should write this in six words or less. It’s really getting down to fill out that rule of one. Then go research how that one reader talks about what we’re talking about here. Then dig into like what’s actually inside the offer. So you can have a really strong offer, um, and use copywriting best practices like headline formulas to make sure that once someone lens there and you have all of these better practices in place that they actually do pay attention to what you’re saying.

Shaina: Amazing. So I could ask you a million more questions, but I know we’re getting far on time here. Um, I talk a lot and I’m like, I’m eating it up in a formulating more questions as you’re talking. But if people who are listening or watching or doing the same thing, which they should be, where can they get more of this information? Like obviously copyhackers.com is like the main overlying site, but like is there anywhere specific that they can learn more about all like landing pages, the best practices, like you mentioned the two different formulas to use after you published your for like that to me, I’m like, I need to know all those things. So where would you go to go to find out more?

Joanna: Yeah, so we actually have a gigantic, um, post on copywriting formulas and frameworks. And if you search coporate copywriting formulas and Google, we still, I think rank number one there. Um, so you should find that. Um, but there’s go on to copy hackers and search that. We also do weekly tutorials that are just live like 20 minute training videos on here’s how to write a headline though, here’s how to make it better, that kind of stuff. So check that on copy hackers too. We’re also putting them on youtube now, but we haven’t really pushed anything there. Um, so yeah.

Shaina: Awesome. We’ll find that article that you’re talking about and we’ll link it in the show notes of the episode and then we’ll send them, is that the Thursday, um, thing that you, that’s on your site, the Thursday trainings or whatever it is, tutorial Tuesday tutorial Tuesday I knew it was a t it was, I knew it was like a iteration or what is it, the, the TTT iteration, what’s that word? that felt right but I don’t feel like it’s really like if he was right and wrong at the same time. Right. Okay. Anyway, it’s got the double t in the word. So anyway, I’m moving a lot. Okay. We’ll go ahead and link to the tutorial training Tuesdays.

Joanna: Tutorial Tuesday.

Shaina: Tuesday’s library. I’m looking at it right now and that article that you were talking about about best practices, cause I’m going to dive into that too. Um, so one thing that we promise everybody is in the next 48 hours, what is one thing that you can tell a person implement that doesn’t require a team?

Joanna: Yeah, a Amazon Review. Mining 100%. So for people who are not familiar with using what’s called voice of customer data to their copy, a lot of people, once you start thinking, okay, you have to use it. My customer says to write it, they think, oh, I have to put a big survey together. And what if they don’t have the list or the middle is too slow? I’ll have to interview people. Oh No, I don’t want to understandably cause I’m like behind the little monitor and I just want to state out at sake. But Amazon review mining is a really great practice. Or finding out what people care about. So in the next 48 hours, if you’d go and say, okay, what products are my, I deal customers hiring you to do the job, they should be hiring me or my product or my service to do so if it’s like, um, again, I did the Rehab uh, example.

Joanna: So someone would be like, well how do I look up anything to do with Amazon review mining to help me with my rehab? Well, what other things are people, especially books or people hiring to help them when they should be hiring you? Oh, they’re, they’re looking up. Ah, books on alcoholism. Okay. Go to whatever they’re hiring to do the job they should be hiring you to do. Go over there and start going through their reviews. And really your job is to read through them. So read through reviews quickly and only when something grabs your attention, do you stop and highlight it, highlight it. I like pull it right out and paste it into Google doc or wherever you do your writing and then move on and keep going. Then by the end of like 30 minutes to an hour, an Amazon review money, you’ll actually look at your Google doc and go like, Holy Shit, I have like, I have a lot of good copy here that I can use in emails, in ads, in wherever, and landing pages, whatever that might be. So that’s the one thing I would do that doesn’t require a team or any resources other than time.

Shaina: That’s awesome. I’m definitely doing that this weekend. Thank you so much. That was great. Well, Joanne, thank you. So, so thank you so much. This has been amazing. Um, I really appreciate it. I’m excited to start implementing everything we’ve talked about in our landing pages for our webinars. Um, and yeah, thank you so much. Content coalition folks. Thanks for listening and check out copy hackers. I’m telling you if you are writing copy, if you are a copy freelancer, I mean literally copies of part of your life regardless. So you got to go check it out. And Joanna, thank you again. Thanks guys.

Joanna: You too. Thanks guys.

Shaina: Thank you so much for checking out this episode of The Content Coalition. Now, whether you’re listening or watching, make sure that you subscribe to the Youtube Channel and to whatever platform you’re listening to at on because you’re not going to want to miss out on the incredible things that I’m learning with these amazing content marketing pros. So make sure you subscribe and we will talk to you next week.

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